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And even if they want it sometimes its too difficult. Either we publish the comment unedited and then respond on-blog encouraging the commenter to read our explanation of why we think codependent is not a good term for abuse victims. Getting him sober wont cure his personality disorders. He needs a skill-intervention by those people around him. The ceiling didnt come crashing down and God didnt scream from the rafters, Sinners, the lot of you! We are obliged to do the right thing in intervening for OUR sakes as well as theirs: because we are human persons too and our day may come when we are the overwhelmed and in need of the mercy of others. Why not? It turned out to be rum. I dont recall anyone saying addictions alone warranted anyone being kicked out. You can be sure that Barbara, Dee, and I sit on a lot of information that never gets released to the public. Ann Sproul of San Francisco, San Francisco County, California was born on January 25, 1931. She said, he needs to be born again as this persistent pattern of behaviour shows he is NOT regenerate and is NOT in Christ at all. In my view and experience with RC Jr shes absolutely correct. Here's a quote from at least as far back as 2005. It is complex. What a hateful thing to recommend that be done for someone with a serious substance abuse problem. If sharing these ghastly pictures will convince someone not to drink and drive, I will be so grateful! When there are cover-ups to protect the leader, whole families shunned because they dont like the church, those are certainly red flags. You are correct. We do not support this book or his return to public ministry.. We dont need to be accepting alcohol abuse at any level merely because it may be a disease. Drug court was denied because he was not bad enough, not because he had felonies. The yawning gap between what he has preached as a Pastor & how hes been as a man is a fertile ground for stopping believing, if they ever even started. Jack wrote: Even pre-internet, a person could lug out their printed Yellow Pages phone book and look up the names of psychologists and so on. Deb said: Back in 1972 shoulder seat belts werent installed in vehicles. What he did was wrong. 1 Corinthians 5:11-13. Our group was a safe place for parents. But here may be a hint. I suppose those who loved his late father, R.C. (but then, in certain christian circles, mocking for all sorts of things seems to be endemic, which is a possibly related problem). So Velour, I ask you to please withdraw your false statements about what we do on A Cry For Justice. Sproul Jr. 16 A Theologian from the Burgh Stephen J. Nichols 28 A Shepherd of God's People Burk Parsons 32 A Friend and Father in the Faith Sinclair B. Ferguson 38 Faithful to the End W. Robert Godfrey Meet Again Miguel Nez An Unashamed Herald And I'm sure you didn't mean 'Alcoholism is an excuse to drink' I'm pretty sure you meant something like "Alcoholics use tragedy as an excuse to drink. (I actually read something recently that was talking about dry January or something to reset your tolerance and although Im sure that wouldnt be promoted by some, it seems like not a bad idea as far as making sure you dont actually have a problem.) Sr. cant make Jr. stop drinking. Sounds like needs a blood transfusion! The county health plan and hospital also has appointments for people who cant afford private care. The purpose of Drug court is for those charged w felonies to be submersed in a rehab program for 1-1.5yrs and graduate with the Judge being the one sharing that persons story and how he/she has been redeem and will acclimate as a reformed person in society- its a big deal. That is not the point. I tried so hard to offer some comfort. I remember those days very well. @Velour, now Im getting your Dark Ages polemic. I believe God gave me a second chance at life, and I am so grateful! However, I also get nauseated if I drink more than 8 ounces of wine. In fact, wine, not unfermented grape juice, is viewed as a good gift of the Lord (Ps. Later it was discovered that his late wife Denise either lived in a town with toxic waste problems or went to a school that had toxic waste problems. If he Sproul gets clean and sober he will probably ditch many ideas that he used to justify including patriarchy. People from many churches came to our group . Geeze Louise. To have her fall stark naked in front of you and others? Someone commented and said that this was the only time that R.C. (Stay Sweet), Im convinced thats exactly what Mr. and Mrs. (Vesta) Sproul have done to their Precious., Remember what happened to Gollum and his PRECIOUSSSSSSSSSSSS, Velour wrote: However, he was considered a,dry drunk,never stopped his stinking thinking. First off, I am not in a position of authority in a church, such as a pastoral position, so I dont see this as being relevant to me as it is for someone such as Sproul Jr who works as a preacher. However, this email led me to do some reading at the Spinderella Sproulwebsite. Some of those people struggle with alcoholism and substance abuse problems. I am so sorry that her parents were killed. Good point, Jeff. Has that been reported on or discussed? I have been talking about how the church should react in the face of this sort of egregious behavior. Thank-You Love! I wonder whether RC Sproul Senior has accepted that fact yet? and me: That is what I was responding to. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. With respect, you still didn't quote this correctly. We dont know. where driving under the influence is concerned, makes things patently clear. My trying to save him from the pain of his choices only made things worse. In contrast, your experience has left you with a definition for the word that involves quashing any kind of disagreement with leadership, and shunning, and cutting off relationships altogether. I got there at about 9:30. To an Alky, the Constitutional Right to My Next Drink cannot be infringed in any way. I noticed the same kinds of barbs being dished out over there, so its not just this blog, this issue, this thread, and me in particular. Sopy That allows time for the body to get used to being *not anxious* or experiencing regular anxiety like being late for an appointment. Sproul Jr. should NOT be enabled in keeping his job and that he should face consequences (i.e. Congratulations to your daughter and family, Darlene. Not that grief for the lost of his first wife and his father ought to allow him to misbehave while remaining in pastoral ministry, and it certainly doesnt excuse him from a good hard look at things he did while Denise was still living (especially when she hadnt been diagnosed as terminal), but what hes doing is classic signs of grief gone metastatic. I hope his (second) wife and children get help to take care of themselves around his alcoholism and learn how to set boundaries with him. R.C. He is now a wonderful father and husband. Why do you feel its necessary to malign a godly servant like RC Sproul as if he is in some way responsible for his grown sons actions! Im going to look at this again, with your comments in mind. He had severe arthritis as well it totally crippled him to the point he could not work, took gold shots, eventually, the treatment and bad medical advice killed him. As I said above, in this day and age, people can use the internet to Google for names and addresses of treatment centers or psychologists. It is perfectly fine for you to believe that. It would be good if she could be more specific on what this alleged therapy is though. I really loved my father very much and he gave more for his family in deeper ways than most of the superhero folks that command such respect in the franchises from what I have observed. Then I agree with both of you. Would you please, so as not to cause me to stumble, stop suggesting that it is wrong to drink alcohol in moderation, or that drinking alcohol in moderation somehow is a failure to love my brothers? (And the same goes for HUG where he contemptuously described me as righteous.) Here it is again: There are some here who advocate kicking addicts/alcoholics out of the church. Plainly put so-called support programs are overrated. I had to be treated for major clinical depression and be put on anti-depressants. Not always. I am not against treatment, and Barbara did not say her opinion, so until she specifies, we cannot assume. We must try to get help for suffering people: medical intervention AND psychiatric intervention. R.C. This may or may not be good advice in some cases, but it is certainly not a rule of thumb in that it assumes that the prior trauma caused the current bad behavior of hurting people and assumes that the person cannot help it when they hurt other people, and assumes that some prior trauma is a life time get out of jail free card for when the alleged victim of prior trauma may continue to hurt people. Hi Julie Anne, These days, many people whose are trained in psychology do not recognize the presence of evil. The domination by one person makes it difficult to have a healthy conversation. I am no longer on that drug. We learned a lot during these years. Edit Search New Search Filters (1) To get better results, add more information such as Birth Info, Death Info and Locationeven a guess will help. Regardless of if Sproul Jr is a drinker or not, I am having a hard time mustering sympathy for him, if its true hes unfairly ostracizing people from his church, using adultery sites, etc. If you think that is hateful, your gripe is with the Bible not with me. There is no excuse for it. @ Velour: http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/. Psychiatric evaluation with continuing monitoring to help with alcohol abuse as self-med for suffering from unresolved pain brought on by deep grief. I guess I was looking at it from the viewpoint of Sprouls victims. I used to be a nurse so that word is familiar to me. Maybe someday Ill feel comfortable sharing more of my story here. Remember Ashley Madison? Hi Julie Anne, Jeff, I hear you, brother. Velour wrote: A visitation will be held Thursday, March 11, 2023, from 10:00 am - 12:00 pm with the Celebration of Life to begin immediately following at 12:00 pm Sprowl. I dont really remember seeing anyone in this thread say they are anti- treatment. Its hard to play the empathy card with this clown. (Expire a life, or innocence or a reputation, or a familys resources, etc.) She was saying he should be put out. Obviously, I dont know what goes on behind closed doors. I didnt even over-eat. No ignition interlock, no restrictions in terms of when and where he can drive, no restrictions on who can be in the car with him (children, etc.). 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